Whoa, feeling the vibes of collective consciousness hard today! I just wrote about this same thing and posted earlier today - you can check out the piece here: https://samiamounts.substack.com/p/why-am-i-so-weird-with-women - but hadn't put it into attachment style terminology. You are so spot on...I am like this, too. My attachment style shifts on gendered lines, and it made me pretty much abandon the idea of dating women years ago. I'm finally ready to jump back in and all my baggage is making itself known again. I just started reading your post and will comment more later, I'm sure, but I had to say something. I love synchronicities, especially when they occur with people I admire, like you. Thank you, as always, Clementine!
You just made my whole week, thank you! And fun update - in the comments section of my piece, you'll see a long comment from a woman with the handle "Pep'd Abysmal" admitting to having an attraction for a woman who...sounds a LOT like me...hehe. This is the woman I've been secretly crushing on for months while building what looks on the outside like a platonic friendship. The full body glee I got to experience when reading that comment - eeeeeeee! Trusting is still hard, but the truth can set you free.
I’m shaking. I’ve genuinely never heard anyone talk about this and when I’ve expressed it to people they have not got it at all. I have so much shame around it, feeling like I’m “not a girl’s girl” or that I am just straight up misogynistic for not feeling safe enough to connect emotionally with other women. I’ve only recently started having proper friendships with women, and I am slowly starting to open my heart. You just really hit it on the head. My whole life, I have been constant bullied, judged, and slut shamed from groups of girls. Then when my cancellation happened it just completely fell apart, and I only really hung out with men which had its own problems. My family was not really abusive but my mum and my grandma were constantly fighting and using me to one-up each other, while my granddad and uncle were gentle, kind, and really funny. I’m really excited to go on this journey of having more friendships with women and femmes, I love them so much.
My mother who very much portrayed herself as the victim was gifted my belief in the same- when if viewing my story as a plot she was actually my monster. I think the duplicity is tumorous and imbedded in my psyche- showing up as an inability to boundary off the space I create for women’s need to believe themselves virtuous and absolved. The distrust I feel for them is actually a distrust in myself and my ability to identify and acknowledge the harm women inflict- always coupling it with immediate understanding of their circumstances and a need to protect them from their own reflection.
Thank you for this. I also relate with how my queer relationships have been more hectic than the relationships I had with straight men before transitioning. I expected men to be violent, and my extremely high standards made me find the few ones who weren't. Then, transitioning made me unable to date outside of the queer community basically (and I'm not saying I miss dating straight men, I do not), and that's where I lived manipulation, gaslighting, and betrayals. I thought queer people couldn't be that violent or cruel, as you thought women couldn't. It still makes me sad that the three exes I don't talk to at all are all queer, two of them are trans. And they were soooo shitty and violent to me. And I don't know what narrative they make up about me.
ooooooof. thanks as always for the vulnerability, deep commitment to self-awareness and inquiry, and for sharing your experience as an invitation to others to reflect. and I want to extend empathy for all the ways you have been mistreated.
as a heterosexual man, this deeply resonates with my experience in relationship. especially this:
"with women, I feel it is all about them. I know I am expected to listen and provide support, and I do so, endlessly. But I don’t believe there is equal space for my vulnerability and I fundamentally don’t trust them with that vulnerability. I become a therapist friend. I am overly accommodating, crossing my own boundaries, taking care of their feelings, and building up resentments."
this is deep present work for me at the moment. like the commenter above, a big piece of it for me has to do with self trust. the path that I'm currently following is about extending that care to myself that I yearn to receive from others (showing up for myself and holding space for my own vulnerability in the same way that I aspire to do for my partners). then from that grounded place of self care I find I have way more capacity to show vulnerability... I'm no longer depending on them to show up for me because I've already showed up for myself. (of course I still yearn for and need partners who can show up for me with that kind of emotional reciprocity).
Your words always hit hard! I find myself wondering if I should share this with my avoidant girlfriend, if having a piece of writing to discuss will be more approachable than directly addressing her inner thoughts and emotions. At the same time I'm afraid it will scare her away. I wonder how much longer I will pour my whole self into this, believing that she loves me even though she keeps me at a distance, despite how much it hurts at times. I've put up with worse from men, but I haven't been so afraid to act crazy (emotional, obsessive) around them. I guess, ironically, I am struggling to show her my full emotional self too 🤦🏼♀️
If you haven’t read it already love without emergency 2 might be a helpful insight into the avoidant perspective. You can access the pdf by clicking on ‘zines’ at the top of this substack.
"But with women this all seems so much more confusing. Perhaps because duplicity is part of it — women are so much better at hiding our capacity for violence and betrayal, even from ourselves."
This hit hard. I have a (stereotypically feminine) tendency to blame myself for everything. I never thought about the fact that all of my experiences with duplicitous women might have something to do with the fact that I have such a hard time trusting them. This piece really helped me see things in a new light, and give myself some grace.
I had a best friend for over a decade that I was totally in love with and devoted to. I would have (and did, actually) give her everything I had. My home, my lovers, my gigs. Literally anything I could give her, I gave her. She had a tougher background than I did, no parents who could help her when things got hard, and I tried to fill that gap.
We fell out in 2019 because I found out she was pretending to be my best friend for the financial safety net I provided. She was living with me for free for the zillionth time, sleeping in my bed, and fully putting on an act while telling everyone we knew how much she hated me, how annoying I was, claiming I was trying to control her and take credit for her success...a bunch of insane projection that was totally divorced from reality. I loved her with my whole heart, and I wanted to help her any way I could. The things she believed about me were so far from the truth that there was nothing to do but let her go. There was no friendship to fight for. It was the single most destabilizing thing to ever happen to my ability to trust.
I had developed a worldview centered around platonic love between women that was based on her, and this experience absolutely shattered that. I haven't been the same since. Five years have passed, and it still breaks my heart. I don't know if it'll ever stop hurting.
My issues with dating women predate this falling out, but they expanded to issues with even being friends with women after this. It's so hard for me to understand how a person could literally fake a best friendship just to get free shit. I know I didn't deserve to be treated that way...no one does. I know men are capable of duplicity, too. This is probably not a gendered thing. But our pattern-seeking brains aren't the most rational.
Thank you, as always, for writing in a way that helps me see my own life more clearly. I really appreciate your work.
Whoa, feeling the vibes of collective consciousness hard today! I just wrote about this same thing and posted earlier today - you can check out the piece here: https://samiamounts.substack.com/p/why-am-i-so-weird-with-women - but hadn't put it into attachment style terminology. You are so spot on...I am like this, too. My attachment style shifts on gendered lines, and it made me pretty much abandon the idea of dating women years ago. I'm finally ready to jump back in and all my baggage is making itself known again. I just started reading your post and will comment more later, I'm sure, but I had to say something. I love synchronicities, especially when they occur with people I admire, like you. Thank you, as always, Clementine!
Woah, thanks for sharing. I’ll check it out.
You just made my whole week, thank you! And fun update - in the comments section of my piece, you'll see a long comment from a woman with the handle "Pep'd Abysmal" admitting to having an attraction for a woman who...sounds a LOT like me...hehe. This is the woman I've been secretly crushing on for months while building what looks on the outside like a platonic friendship. The full body glee I got to experience when reading that comment - eeeeeeee! Trusting is still hard, but the truth can set you free.
I’m shaking. I’ve genuinely never heard anyone talk about this and when I’ve expressed it to people they have not got it at all. I have so much shame around it, feeling like I’m “not a girl’s girl” or that I am just straight up misogynistic for not feeling safe enough to connect emotionally with other women. I’ve only recently started having proper friendships with women, and I am slowly starting to open my heart. You just really hit it on the head. My whole life, I have been constant bullied, judged, and slut shamed from groups of girls. Then when my cancellation happened it just completely fell apart, and I only really hung out with men which had its own problems. My family was not really abusive but my mum and my grandma were constantly fighting and using me to one-up each other, while my granddad and uncle were gentle, kind, and really funny. I’m really excited to go on this journey of having more friendships with women and femmes, I love them so much.
I resonate with this to an obscene degree.
My mother who very much portrayed herself as the victim was gifted my belief in the same- when if viewing my story as a plot she was actually my monster. I think the duplicity is tumorous and imbedded in my psyche- showing up as an inability to boundary off the space I create for women’s need to believe themselves virtuous and absolved. The distrust I feel for them is actually a distrust in myself and my ability to identify and acknowledge the harm women inflict- always coupling it with immediate understanding of their circumstances and a need to protect them from their own reflection.
Thank you for this. I also relate with how my queer relationships have been more hectic than the relationships I had with straight men before transitioning. I expected men to be violent, and my extremely high standards made me find the few ones who weren't. Then, transitioning made me unable to date outside of the queer community basically (and I'm not saying I miss dating straight men, I do not), and that's where I lived manipulation, gaslighting, and betrayals. I thought queer people couldn't be that violent or cruel, as you thought women couldn't. It still makes me sad that the three exes I don't talk to at all are all queer, two of them are trans. And they were soooo shitty and violent to me. And I don't know what narrative they make up about me.
ooooooof. thanks as always for the vulnerability, deep commitment to self-awareness and inquiry, and for sharing your experience as an invitation to others to reflect. and I want to extend empathy for all the ways you have been mistreated.
as a heterosexual man, this deeply resonates with my experience in relationship. especially this:
"with women, I feel it is all about them. I know I am expected to listen and provide support, and I do so, endlessly. But I don’t believe there is equal space for my vulnerability and I fundamentally don’t trust them with that vulnerability. I become a therapist friend. I am overly accommodating, crossing my own boundaries, taking care of their feelings, and building up resentments."
this is deep present work for me at the moment. like the commenter above, a big piece of it for me has to do with self trust. the path that I'm currently following is about extending that care to myself that I yearn to receive from others (showing up for myself and holding space for my own vulnerability in the same way that I aspire to do for my partners). then from that grounded place of self care I find I have way more capacity to show vulnerability... I'm no longer depending on them to show up for me because I've already showed up for myself. (of course I still yearn for and need partners who can show up for me with that kind of emotional reciprocity).
Your words always hit hard! I find myself wondering if I should share this with my avoidant girlfriend, if having a piece of writing to discuss will be more approachable than directly addressing her inner thoughts and emotions. At the same time I'm afraid it will scare her away. I wonder how much longer I will pour my whole self into this, believing that she loves me even though she keeps me at a distance, despite how much it hurts at times. I've put up with worse from men, but I haven't been so afraid to act crazy (emotional, obsessive) around them. I guess, ironically, I am struggling to show her my full emotional self too 🤦🏼♀️
If you haven’t read it already love without emergency 2 might be a helpful insight into the avoidant perspective. You can access the pdf by clicking on ‘zines’ at the top of this substack.
I think I read the first one a while ago - could be good to return to that one too! Thanks for the suggestion! 💕
"But with women this all seems so much more confusing. Perhaps because duplicity is part of it — women are so much better at hiding our capacity for violence and betrayal, even from ourselves."
This hit hard. I have a (stereotypically feminine) tendency to blame myself for everything. I never thought about the fact that all of my experiences with duplicitous women might have something to do with the fact that I have such a hard time trusting them. This piece really helped me see things in a new light, and give myself some grace.
I had a best friend for over a decade that I was totally in love with and devoted to. I would have (and did, actually) give her everything I had. My home, my lovers, my gigs. Literally anything I could give her, I gave her. She had a tougher background than I did, no parents who could help her when things got hard, and I tried to fill that gap.
We fell out in 2019 because I found out she was pretending to be my best friend for the financial safety net I provided. She was living with me for free for the zillionth time, sleeping in my bed, and fully putting on an act while telling everyone we knew how much she hated me, how annoying I was, claiming I was trying to control her and take credit for her success...a bunch of insane projection that was totally divorced from reality. I loved her with my whole heart, and I wanted to help her any way I could. The things she believed about me were so far from the truth that there was nothing to do but let her go. There was no friendship to fight for. It was the single most destabilizing thing to ever happen to my ability to trust.
I had developed a worldview centered around platonic love between women that was based on her, and this experience absolutely shattered that. I haven't been the same since. Five years have passed, and it still breaks my heart. I don't know if it'll ever stop hurting.
My issues with dating women predate this falling out, but they expanded to issues with even being friends with women after this. It's so hard for me to understand how a person could literally fake a best friendship just to get free shit. I know I didn't deserve to be treated that way...no one does. I know men are capable of duplicity, too. This is probably not a gendered thing. But our pattern-seeking brains aren't the most rational.
Thank you, as always, for writing in a way that helps me see my own life more clearly. I really appreciate your work.